Patrick,

Interesting point. I have mine set to flip six minutes (0.1 hours) after it crosses the meridian, which may not be enough. I always thought that EKOS would update the mount once it performed an alignment... but maybe not?

Thinking back... I never had this issue with my Meade LX85 mount, but it had a well-marked home position on the mount. The SW EQ6-R does not and I'm not sure how accurate I am in setting it.

I'm going try a higher setting.

Thanks,

Ron

Jasem,

Is it possible to update the mount with the position after alignment?

Also, I'm assuming that "hours" selection is referring to clock time... correct? Maybe I should check "degrees" and set to something like 5?

Ron

Not saying I understand the ekos vs mount in sync issue but the trace shows a MF running, failed, message says wait 4 minutes then 19 second later try it again, showing in State 7, failing, saying will retry in 4 minutes
and then a retry in 15+ minutes or so, failing again.

[2022-02-19T23:44:25.612 EST DEBG ][ org.kde.kstars.ekos.mount] - Received capture meridianFlipStatusChange "FLIP_ACCEPTED"
[2022-02-19T23:44:25.612 EST DEBG ][ org.kde.kstars.ekos.mount] - meridianFlipStatusChanged "FLIP_ACCEPTED"
[2022-02-19T23:44:26.166 EST DEBG ][ org.kde.kstars.ekos.mount] - Setting meridian flip status to "FLIP_RUNNING"
[2022-02-19T23:44:26.166 EST DEBG ][ org.kde.kstars.ekos.mount] - meridianFlipStatusChanged "FLIP_RUNNING"
[2022-02-19T23:44:26.166 EST DEBG ][ org.kde.kstars.ekos.capture] - meridianFlipStatusChanged: "FLIP_RUNNING"
[2022-02-19T23:44:26.786 EST INFO ][ org.kde.kstars.ekos.mount] - "meridian flip failed, retrying in 4 minutes"

The 19 seconds later

[2022-02-19T23:44:49.011 EST CRIT ][ org.kde.kstars.ekos.capture] - Accepting meridian flip request while being in stage 7
[2022-02-19T23:44:49.012 EST DEBG ][ org.kde.kstars.ekos.mount] - Received capture meridianFlipStatusChange "FLIP_WAITING"
[2022-02-19T23:44:49.012 EST DEBG ][ org.kde.kstars.ekos.mount] - meridianFlipStatusChanged "FLIP_WAITING"
[2022-02-19T23:44:49.552 EST DEBG ][ org.kde.kstars.ekos.mount] - Received capture meridianFlipStatusChange "FLIP_ACCEPTED"
[2022-02-19T23:44:49.552 EST DEBG ][ org.kde.kstars.ekos.mount] - meridianFlipStatusChanged "FLIP_ACCEPTED"
[2022-02-19T23:44:49.898 EST DEBG ][ org.kde.kstars.ekos.mount] - Setting meridian flip status to "FLIP_RUNNING"
[2022-02-19T23:44:49.899 EST DEBG ][ org.kde.kstars.ekos.mount] - meridianFlipStatusChanged "FLIP_RUNNING"
[2022-02-19T23:44:49.899 EST DEBG ][ org.kde.kstars.ekos.capture] - meridianFlipStatusChanged: "FLIP_RUNNING"
[2022-02-19T23:44:50.968 EST INFO ][ org.kde.kstars.ekos.mount] - "meridian flip failed, retrying in 4 minutes"

Then 15 minutes later retry after saying 4 minutes previous

[2022-02-20T04:59:25.528 EST DEBG ][ org.kde.kstars.ekos.mount] - Received capture meridianFlipStatusChange "FLIP_ACCEPTED"
[2022-02-20T04:59:25.528 EST DEBG ][ org.kde.kstars.ekos.mount] - meridianFlipStatusChanged "FLIP_ACCEPTED"
[2022-02-20T04:59:26.255 EST DEBG ][ org.kde.kstars.ekos.mount] - Setting meridian flip status to "FLIP_RUNNING"
[

As Wolfgang says the flip failed at 23:44:26, probably because the mount didn't think it was past the Meridian and therefore did not have to flip. EKOS reports that it will retry in 4 minutes. I think there is a bug in the code here as whenever I get this retry message it retries almost immediately (not in 4 mins). This is repeatable every time. This is also the case with this log.

The mount has another go at the flip, 33 seconds later at 23:44:49 but it fails to flip the mount again.

For the first failed flip, EKOS reports the HA:
Hour Angle  "00h 00m 27s"

For the second failed flip,
Hour Angle  "00h 00m 28s"

So the HA is very close to the Meridian so if there is a small discrepancy between EKOS and the mount in terms of time or location setting it could well be that the mount doesn't think it has crossed the Meridian and so doesn't flip. Because of the "4 min" bug EKOS tries a few seconds later and gets the same result. It seems to get into a funny state after that so thats the end of the session.

If the MF sometimes works and sometimes doesn't then it could be because sometimes the Mount thinks it has crossed the Meridian and flips, and sometimes it thinks it hasn't quite crossed it so doesn't move. Things like how long the MF has to wait for an ongoing capture to complete can make a difference.

What I would suggest is:
1. Check the mount settings for time and location so ensure they are consistent with EKOS.
2. Work out how far past the Meridian you can go with your equipment before the scope crashes into the mount and in the Mount tab in EKOS, set the "Flip if HA >" value above zero but below your maximum limit. For example, if you can go to an HA of 1 hour before problems try setting your "Flip if HA >" to 0.5. So if there are small timing issues these should not cause problems.
3. Have a play with your setup in daylight doing some MFs to make sure you get settings that work for you.

I wrote up a doco on MFs that might help...
As Wolfgang says the flip failed at 23:44:26, probably because the mount didn't think it was past the Meridian and therefore did not have to flip. EKOS reports that it will retry in 4 minutes. I think there is a bug in the code here as whenever I get this retry message it retries almost immediately (not in 4 mins). This is repeatable every time. This is also the case with this log.

The mount has another go at the flip, 33 seconds later at 23:44:49 but it fails to flip the mount again.

For the first failed flip, EKOS reports the HA:
Hour Angle  "00h 00m 27s"

For the second failed flip,
Hour Angle  "00h 00m 28s"

So the HA is very close to the Meridian so if there is a small discrepancy between EKOS and the mount in terms of time or location setting it could well be that the mount doesn't think it has crossed the Meridian and so doesn't flip. Because of the "4 min" bug EKOS tries a few seconds later and gets the same result. It seems to get into a funny state after that so thats the end of the session.

If the MF sometimes works and sometimes doesn't then it could be because sometimes the Mount thinks it has crossed the Meridian and flips, and sometimes it thinks it hasn't quite crossed it so doesn't move. Things like how long the MF has to wait for an ongoing capture to complete can make a difference.

What I would suggest is:
1. Check the mount settings for time and location so ensure they are consistent with EKOS.
2. Work out how far past the Meridian you can go with your equipment before the scope crashes into the mount and in the Mount tab in EKOS, set the "Flip if HA >" value above zero but below your maximum limit. For example, if you can go to an HA of 1 hour before problems try setting your "Flip if HA >" to 0.5. So if there are small timing issues these should not cause problems.
3. Have a play with your setup in daylight doing some MFs to make sure you get settings that work for you.

I wrote up a doco on MFs that might help...
  

Gene/John,

Thanks for the replies!

Gene: Yeah, regardless of how to get MF working correctly... there needs to be some work on how EKOS handles a MF error.  I'm sure it's complicated... but probably doesn't need to be.  It would seem to me that if MF fails then EKOS should reset the countdown to some value (e.g., 4 mins) and continues with all other processes (e.g., guiding, capturing, etc.).  Then try again in 4 mins... wash, rinse, repeat... until successful.

John: Great analysis and excellent article!  Here are my observations:

• My HA greater than 0.1 hours is probably just too low.  I will test my mount for potential crashes, but think I should be able to set it to 0.5 hours (7.5 degrees) without issues.
• I'll check my mount to see if it is in sync with EKOS.  It should be, as I have EKOS setup to update the mount based on EKOS.
• Which gets me wondering if EKOS re-syncs to the mount after alignment?  When I run alignment, I can be 1-2 degrees off... which EKOS corrects.  The question is... what impact (if any) does this have on what the mount thinks is the meridian?  If I go-to another object and perform alignment, I'm off by about the same amount... which tells me that EKOS does not update the alignment model in the mount.  Should it?  I don't know... perhaps others can chime in.
• SO.... my theory is that when my home position is off by 1-2 degrees, EKOS performs alignment and corrects its model (including MF time) and starts the MF countdown.  However, the mount hasn't changed its model.  When the countdown gets to zero, MF will work as long as the HA delay is within the alignment error of the mount.  If it isn't, then I have problems.

Make sense?

Ron

Certainly sounds possible. There should be some config on the alignment model in the Indi Mount tab that would be worth reviewing. If, as you say, you are always a degree or two off then it does imply that the alignment model is not improving goto accuracy for some reason.

Hi Ron,

As a temporary troubleshooting step can you eliminate the mount model and just run a test (or two) without it? If so, this will give you one less variable in the way to getting your problem solved.
Just a thought.

John,

I don't see any config settings in the INDI mount tab... am I missing something?

Ron

Midwest,

How do I eliminate the mount model? and what tests should I perform?

Thanks,

Ron

Hi Ron,

I was thinking about this...
 

I finally got a clear night to do some testing.

• I confirmed that the time and location are in sync between the mount and EKOS.
• I couldn't find a place on my handset to confirm that the RA/DEC were in sync... not sure how to do this.
• I was very careful to set my mount's home position was accurate (used a level).
• Set the HA greater than 0.3 to increase the probability that the mount will be past meridian.

All of this seemed to work on getting the MF physically done correctly, but other issues emerged.

The issue first arose when I got to the two-hour autofocus mark.

• When the autofocus timer hit, it began immediately to AF... interrupting the current capture.
• It completed the AF successful.
• Then it performed an alignment!  I have no idea why.
• Then it attempted to restart PHD2 guiding, but failed because it couldn't capture (don't know why).  PHD2 said it then disconnected the camera and would retry.
• Then it restarted the cycle again... focus, align, guide, fail... repeat.
• It did this until I aborted the schedule

I then captured the log and have attached.

I rebooted the RPi and restarted the job, but turned off AF.  Everything worked fine until MF.  The MF was successful, but then it got caught into the same "loop" as before... focus, align, guide, fail... repeat.  Unfortunately, I forgot to restart log capture after the reboot... but it looked like the same problem as before.

Hopefully, someone can take a look at the log and see what the problem might be.  I'm supposed to have another clear night tonight, so will try with the internal guider.

Very frustrating... I've never had this many problems until this latest version.

Thanks,

Ron

So performed further testing last night (log link attached).  I changed my guiding to use the internal guiding.

Good news:  The meridian flip worked perfectly!

Bad news:  I get the SNR dropping out throughout the night, even when the image clearly shows the guide stars.  Eventually it got bad enough that EKOS jerked the scope so far that the object was no longer in the frame!  It continued taking misaligned pictures until the MF, when it realigned the object and did a good job... until the SNR started dropping out again.  This problem was why I switched to PHD2 to begin with... and this problem never occurs.

So... I'm stuck with two choices that are problematic.

• Use PHD2 and have meridian flip problem... no guiding/capturing after flip.
• Use internal guiding and have the SNR dropping problem... and dump about a third of my images (only got 119 out of 180).

I would be happy to have either problem solved... please!

Any ideas/suggestions?

Thanks,

Ron

www.dropbox.com/s/yihxyfj0yc11n9f/log_18-39-26.txt.zip?dl=0