Hi there,

First things first: PLEASE: I would appreciate it, if we do not discuss the point "Pi or not Pi" here. Also, NOT the usage of MiniPC's on SMateX. This thread should be solely discuss installing the StellarmateX OS on THIN CLIENTS. Like Dell Whyse, ThinkCentre Mini and others. Feel free to open another thread, if you do like to discuss other options

There are reasons for StellarmateX on a ThinClient with an AMD64 processor or ARM (not tested yet).

• First argument: price. In total cost, refurbished AMD64 Thin Clients are much cheaper than a new MiniPC (or a Raspberry Pi). You get these devices nowadays for almost nothing - sometimes, if you know someone, donated.
• Despite you can do everything with Stellarmate on the PI too, there are some caveats: Speed, native SSD or NVME support (Stellarmate Pro will solve this, but we are waiting for more powerful Pi hardware).
• Also, some programs like Firecapture are not natively available for Pi 64bit or the Pi is simply not speedy enough for some tasks. And planetary imaging need speed for some special tasks (think about APS-C oder fullframe streaming).
• Obviously they are more heavy and bigger than a MiniPC (or Pi) (~1KG, ~175x175x30mm)
• They are compact, stable devices from named hardware sellers and widely proofed to work on a daily basis out in the business world. They have everything on board, what you need to get started with StellarmateX. Some also haver a serial port, which could be nice for older mounts.
• They are expandable concerning hardware: SSD/NVME, RAM, sometimes other interesting possibilities to add hardware (like a Wifi, if not on board). This makes these devices future proof.[/i]
  
• Some older devices are not of use and I will not try to get them running, because of their limited hardware capabilities (slow ARM, less RAM) or old connection port types (USB2) or lack of support of modern operating systems (32bit arch or limited OS installation capabilities).
• Most branded ThinClients like from Lenovo or Dell are so popular, you will get extras very cheap both original and third party for years (power supply, spare parts, vesa mounts, ...)

Just one last word on the Pi: you can not compare a modern MiniPC or a modern Thin Client with the Pi. And this is not intended and should not be done. The Pi is another world. The Pi does not need that much power, can be driven with an SD-Card. It is very slim and less heavy than a standard Thin Client and - which is most important - has GPIO pins - it's a real IoT device. It is most versatile when it comes to an open hardware architecture. I added a NVMe to mine and a reliable 12V power supply head. TCO: €200. The Pi gives you a very lightweight and, if you are interested in IoT, very flexible Linux/Stellarmate Setup on ARM. ARM is undoubtable <em>THE</em> future-proof CPU architecture. I bought my Pi4 4Gb when it was affordable (€65). Meanwhile, it is so expensive, I would not buy one at the moment and wait for a newer, faster model. This is NOT the problem of the Pi, or its seller. It was COVID. When the time comes, I will upgrade. ARM is the better technology. ARM will speed up and more and more compact solutions, which come from IoT industry - which is the preferred market for these devices - are in the pipeline. It is only a matter of time - so be prepared for ARM

Let's get started ...

I am eager to hear, which ThinClient PC are compatible and work for you (again: please no MiniPCs here ).

Cheers, Axel

Lenovo ThinkCentre M93p

Yesterday, I installed successfully StellarmateX on a Lenovo M99p ThinkCentre . This is a Thin Client, with Intel-i5 4Core, 256 GB SSD, 8 GB RAM, 2x USB3 at front, one of them always power on, 3x USB3 at rear and one USB2, a serial connector, VGA, display port, GB LAN with WOL. This device has extension ports for a lot of

Since the device had no build in WLAN, I attached a Cudy WU1300 AC USB-Adapter , which is Linux compatible. These Cudy devices are very cheap and good. You get these Lenovo devices refurbished for a good price and - what I like most - this is hardware you can add things like swapping disks, adding up to 32 GB RAM, adding a Wi-Fi Card, if you like ... And it's very robust. The i5-4590T quad-core processor is really fast (2 - 3.6 GHZ). It's from 2018, so AM64 (64bit).

I cost me just €100 including original power supply and guarantee (refurbished hardware). More or less, the M93p is a standard PC in ThinClient form factor. Nothing too "ThinClient"-like with sometimes restrictions on power-supply, BIOS, restrictions on installing OS (Dell ARM ... uuuuhhh ... no fun).

Hardware Reference: psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkCe...3_M93p_Tiny_Spec.PDF



Considerations

• This device is roughly 175 x 177 x 34mm
• weighs 1 KG

Installation

• Use Belena Ether to put the Smate-Image (xz) onto an USB bootable Stick (8G)
• Disable secure boot in BIOS
• Consider to save the original Windows 10 installation with Acronis, so you could go back (would you go back to win?: no ). You can also use Clonezilla , which is Open Source and does more or less the same

That's it

I also ordered a 12-24V mobile power supply for just about €25 (third party type HKY laptop adapter DC 12V-24V). I am very satisfied with the setup, which I can use in the field.

Conclusion
The M93p is a perfect, stable and cheap match for StellarmateX. It is quite heavy, so probably should be mounted on top of the RA-axis or on the tripod.


Everything is attached to the scope and setup, like it had before on the PI, and the system runs stable and very fast (!). No problems so far.


Someone also got me a Dell Whyse 5070 for nothing . This is very similar, has more USB. I'll report.

# Dell Wysee 5070

The 5070 is a pretty good StellarmateX device. It it more modern than the M93p ThinkCentre



- NVME support (I use a 1 TB Western Digital Red)
- PC 2400T RAM (speedy) up to 32GB
- one USB-C at the front
- general more USB-ports



There is a Pentium and a Celeron version.

The only thing: I had to manually reset the BIOS pass, which is sonde with a jumper on the motherboard. Then I could alter BIOS settings. Read here: www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/wyse/5070/firmware.shtml


Installation of StellarmatX went flawlessly. Nothing more to say.

You will find easily manuals (e.g. here: thinclientspecialist.de/media/pdf/30/23/...eet1Wf2AJzkcYg2o.pdf)

Cheers, Axel

Honestly... if i'm going to that size hardware... I'm going to simply plug a Dell OptiPlex 7070 Micro in there.
I've got 3 of them myself for free from helping a local business do upgrades to newer hardware. Each has 32GB RAM, 512GB NVMe PCIe.
But I'm not crazy about hanging another 2.5 pounds on my rig. I guess i could "jury rig" a mounting system to attach to the tripod itself... but that defeats the benefit that the RPi 4 (which you don't want talked about) or even the Intel NUC's have adding directly to the telescope mounting itself.
Just because something can be done doesn't equate to that it should be done. Heck, you can tote a desktop out and drop it beneath your mount and run your cabling to it and run StellarMate X. May not be the most transportable in the world, but it would work.
But for most of us, keeping the weight to a minimum is a major concern.

In the same way that autosport enthusiasts try to reduce rotating un-sprung mass, I've gotten away from putting anything on the OTA that doesn't absolutely need to be there.

Focuser, guider, filters, cameras ... absolutely that goes on the mount! Computer? Nope. Cables inside a sleeve weigh less. I have some expanding mesh that keeps all the cables bundled together, with velcro ties to hold stuff in place while still leaving enough slack in the right places for the mount to move but no so much that it can tangle.

And for those that don't use the same mount for their rig each time, you are having to create an attachment position on every mount you use. The overall weight hit of an RPI (about .2 pounds) or even the NUC11 (about 1 pound) compared to around 3 pounds is noticeable if you follow the "50%" rule.
With those lighter weights mounted directly to your scope, you only have to worry (at least with my current setup) with one cable off the base mount area... the power one going to the PPADBV. All other cables are ran along the scope with the mount power and the mount USB cable being the only two that "dangle", and they are in a sleeve.
I am working on figuring out a way to have a "strap on" mount for use on a tripod leg for all the computer control equipment, but haven't taken a lot of time to figure out a design yet.
I am probably going to grab a copy of StellarMate X and play with it on one of the 7070 Micros. Never can tell, may end up using it. Only problem is powering via the battery system. Pretty much going to need to use an inverter from what I have found, and those tend to suck down the battery quickly.

@Tracy Perry.
> But I'm not crazy about hanging another 2.5 pounds on my rig.

You do not have to, if you do not like. No one forces you
There is an almost simple solution to almost everything




And you might not believe it, there is also a mobile setup up which works like a charm on my Astrophysics QHD 400. Sorry guys, I call this simply "whining on a high level".



I have fun and invest my money in optics and other good stuff.

@Chris Kuethe
> Focuser, guider, filters, cameras ... absolutely that goes on the mount! Computer? Nope.

I respect your opinion, but this is NOT the topic of the thread ... as I wrote in my first post. I am a little tired of comments that don't contribute to the thread theme. But, that's how it is — sadly, there is no thread culture anymore these days.

Cheers, Axel

Sadly, the simple fact is, some people are fully cognizant that not everyone has a "hoss" mount that can support 100 pounds (nor do they want to push their current mount) and they have to be careful of the equipment mounted to the scope (bearing in mind mount weight restrictions).
Can a thin client be a valid option? Definitely yes when one takes into consideration the weight restrictions of their equipment. But not everyone wants to mount 2-4 pounds of weight onto their telescope if they can get by with 1-2 pounds. My current simple 103mm rig is running at around 25 pounds... well over 1/2 of what my EQ6-R is rated at and I'd rather keep that weight as low as possible.
Thin clients (and computers such as the Dell OptiPlex 7070) are great when tripod mounted (or off the scope mount itself), and they work very similar to the mini PC's (like an Intel NUC 11) that can be mounted directly on the telescope itself at 1/2 the weight use. Honestly... a 1 1/2 pound mini PC (Intel NUC 11 style) can be purchased for what most thin clients cost.... and are 1/2 the weight. It's kind of a no-brainer if you want all your equipment on the telescope itself.
Then you have the fact that many don't want the vibration that the built-in fans bring into the mounting scenario (which is why they choose the MeLe series).
At the current price range of most micro-PC's and the thin clients, there is not that much a difference in cost... and usually you aren't going to be doing your pre-processing on your capture device...so why do you need an I5 or I7 processor for simple data collection when a "measly" current level Celeron processor will suffice more than adequately?

If one has a massive mount that they don't have to worry about weight (say something with around 100 pounds) then that is different than someone that may have a 20-40 pound weight limit. You should not be getting upset that users bring forth that caveat because many new to the field may not be fully aware of how much importance on a rig weight is. Many want as much as possible mounted on the telescope rig itself and not tons of cables running to a PC mounted on a tripod leg. In fact, on my smaller rig, I have most of my cables running to a micro PC (BeeLink U59) that has a Pegaus Power Box mini mounted to it. If I had room on my telescope mount, it would have a PBBADV mounted on it and only one cable running to it.. but I was not able to choose that option currently due to limited budget for the hobby.

The whole point is to offer the end user alternatives... and yes, thin clients are a viable one if choosing to mount on a "hoss" rig, or on the tripod, realizing that cable management also comes into play. Or they can choose a micro PC at 1/2 the weight and the same general cost that can be mounted directly to their rig itself with less cable management (not necessarily connections) issues.

Thanks Tracy,

for your well-balanced text and arguments. I appreciate this and might help the one or the other about using a pc of whatever kind of hardware on its mount. You are right, a Thin Clients are at this point of view a special kind of hardware.

But fact is: this is not the topic of this thread It's about Stellarmate on Thin clients, not more, not less. It's a little sad, that nowadays it seems to be merely impossible for people to keep in within a dedicated theme. But hey, that's our world.

I hoped to get others to write their experiences with Thin clients, probably older models. But that seems not to happen

Cheers, Axel

Threads morph. That is and always has been the nature of the internet forum discussions.
As to feedback from those using "thin clients, especially older models", you may not be getting much feedback because there are better solutions, and for many at an equivalent (or slightly higher) cost than buying a larger, bulkier solution that require special mounting requirements/hassles and power supply issues.
I used a Dell Optiplex 7070 micro for a bit... and found it (for my rigs) not an acceptable solution as no mounting solution was fully acceptable on the rig. I also had difficulty sourcing quality 12v solutions that would provide adequate power since the Pegasus PowerBox solutions could not and drive the other equipment reliably.
For me (and maybe others), I found that a thin-client was a poor solution for my requirements and equipment configuration.

As for your comment about having an app... so I I... it works with all my StellarMate OS based devices.

Best of luck.