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INDI Library v1.8.1 Released (09 Sep 2019)

Monthly maintenance release INDI v1.8.1

Guiding nightmare

1 month 4 weeks ago 1 month 4 weeks ago by Vox45.
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Guiding nightmare #43643
Hello all,

I need some advice on a guiding issue that is driving me crazy.

Two days ago I went out and was able to guide quite ok. I had to redo the calibration 2 or 3 times because it would fail with the message "cannot reach guidestar after 21 iteration possible mount or backslash problem" but in the end, it started guiding

Now last night, same gear, same location, same target ... I spend 3 hours doing calibration, it was driving me nuts, I changed settings like guiding pulse, size of the box to 64, swap DEC RA combination of all of this and it kept failling and then ... Bam ! it started guiding to my great relief. I enabled the logs hoping someone could look at these and maybe find some explanation.

Here is a screen capture with the settings that I had to use to finally have the calibration working. I usually use the default setting without issues.

-> my PA error was 12"
-> I balanced my mount properly
-> I use a Sirius mount (HEQ5) with a belt mode
-> I tried calibrating on different part of the sky without success

I see that I am not the first one to post about this issue. Has anyone come up with a definitive answer on what should be done to correct this ?

P.-S.

I would love to see PHD integrated in Ekos instead of being a standalone software, after all that is one of the main reason I love Ekos so much, it is all integrated and you find everything in one place in a consistant manner. but I think that the PHD community is vast and experienced and PHD has been in use for quite some time by a large amount of people. When I ask questions about guiding most assume that I use PHD and are quite at a lost when they try to help me on the internal guider. Having PHD integrated in Ekos would take advantage of the common knowledge out there. My two cents.


"Some people are so poor, all they have is money"
SW Black Diamond 80ED | SW150MAK | Newton SW 200/1000 | Orion 50mm Guider with Helical Focuser |Sirius EQ-G Rowan Belt Mode
Canon 1000D moded | ZWO ASI185MC | Baader Mark III Zoom
INDI | Stellarmate on RPI3B+ | Stellarium | Pixinsight
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1 month 4 weeks ago
wotalota
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Guiding nightmare #43645
I was having a hard time with guiding last night, took about 1.5 hours to get it going.
The swings were very high, going off scale and needing a restart. This was using settings
untouched from earlier nights when guiding was acceptable. Seeing was average and a nice
clear night better than most here. The last few things changed were:

- Disable dithering, didn't seem to be related but left it disabled
- Reduce pulse
- Algorithm changed from SMART
- Use of subframe (since this was the last thing changed before guiding worked for more than a few minutes)

After these changes the RMS error averaged 0.4 for the remaining 2 hours of time.
I do not know when the FOV became 5.6x5.6 but did not touch it since things were working.
/Tom

TS86Q
General:
Via: Pulse
Subframe yes
Star: Manual select
Box: 32x32
Focal: 464
Aperture: 86
F/D: 5.4
FOV: 84x53 (5.6x5.6)
Guide Rate: x1 (Mach1)
Exposure: 3 seconds
Binning: 2x2

Options Calibration
Pulse: 300
Iterations: 3

Options Guide
Algorithm: SEP
Dither: Disabled

Control Params
Max pulse: 900ms
Min pulse: 30ms

Mach1, TS86SDQ, ASI071, ASI174, OAG, focusPro

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1 month 4 weeks ago
the.cakemaker
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Guiding nightmare #43649
Same here yesterday... Since i had extreme problems using phd i´d love to use the internal guider.
For some time it worked just fine with my Moravian G2 8300 Color and an ASI 120mm on the OffAxisGuider.

Because i am not very happy with my G" i made the step back to my Canon 5dMarkIII with Astromodification.
There i have to use a finder (ZWO 60280) with the asi, because i do not have a fittin OAG for the ASI.

Guiding was absolutely katastrophic the last 2 nights...

I kept getting misses up to 8+ arcsecs and it was not really usable...

tried different settings for about 3 hours without success. Maybe i´ll have a go with phd tonight...

If only the MGen would be finally supported in KStars, this would solve all my problems...

cheers
Niki

Skywatcher EQ6-R | Lacerta 10" Carbon-Newton | Canon EOS 5DMarkIIIa | ASI120mm guiding cam | KSTARS NIGHTLY 3.3.6 on my outdoor-Laptop |

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1 month 4 weeks ago 1 month 4 weeks ago by Herrhausen.
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Guiding nightmare #43654
I cannot comment on your calibration problem. But one thing you should definitely do is set your proportional gain to 44.4. Thas assumes your guiding rate is indeed 1.5 as shown in the screenshot.
I suspect this is not correct though since normally the guiding rate should be around 0.5 or 0.3 or something similar.

What you should do is this:
1. find out what the guiding rate of your mount is.
2. enter the guiding rate in the corresponding field in Ekos
3. copy the resulting P: value to both "Porportional gain" fields in the control parameters.

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1 month 4 weeks ago
wvreeven
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Guiding nightmare #43655
In the guide cam image the green square is not centered on a star. Is Select Auto Star selected or do you select a star manually before starting the guiding calibration?


Wouter

ASI1600MM-Pro Cooled and filter wheel with a SkyWatcher Esprit 80 ED on a SkyWatcher HEQ5-Pro

ASI1600MM-Pro Cooled and filter wheel with an 8" TS Ritchey-Chrétien on a SkyWatcher EQ6-R

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1 month 4 weeks ago 1 month 4 weeks ago by the.cakemaker.
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Guiding nightmare #43661
Thats how it looks here. Always running away to the top...

Edit: How neccesary would you say is the orientation of the guidecam as well as the exact alignemnt of guidescope and main scope?

cheers
Niki

Skywatcher EQ6-R | Lacerta 10" Carbon-Newton | Canon EOS 5DMarkIIIa | ASI120mm guiding cam | KSTARS NIGHTLY 3.3.6 on my outdoor-Laptop |
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1 month 4 weeks ago
El Corazon
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Guiding nightmare #43663

wvreeven wrote: In the guide cam image the green square is not centered on a star. Is Select Auto Star selected or do you select a star manually before starting the guiding calibration?


Wouter


Wouter, when you look closely you see that Auto-Star is selected.

I am not sure what is going on, but I also would like to know the Kstars version that was used in those instances.
Remember how we were trying to solve the guiding variations last year, only to revert back to the default values in the internal guiding module.
I have exclusively used the internal guider for the last 2 years and it has been rock-solid for me.
The "cannot reach guidestar after 21 iteration possible mount or backslash problem" issue was caused by a bug in the ZWO driver back when we were dealing with this some 18 months ago, or so. So if that is back, then the ZWO driver may be at fault again?
My guiding still works great, but I also did not upgrade to the latest Indi version yet.
Please post the version you are using.

Cheers

Jo

Atlas Pro AZ-EQ, ASI1600MM-Pro, ASI120MM-S, ES102ED, WO-Z61, Nikon D3300, ASI-EFW, ZWO LRGB,Ha,O3,S2 filter set

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1 month 4 weeks ago
Blueshawk
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Guiding nightmare #43664
I guided last night with an eq6-r and an asi120c-s on a converted finder scope. With the exception of a tight cable at one point, I was able to guide sub 1arcsec 600second exposures all night...and yes i'm stoked by that unusually good night. :)
With my new system I've found my tracking failures are almost always related to cable drag or polar misalignment. Also, I always clear any sync and tuning when I start each night as the mount tends to log erroneous settings from the previous setup if I don't. This could creep into tracking speeds on some mounts. I've found that I have better results by actually forcing the mount to be a bit west weighted(camera/focuser tilted west a bit) then shooting east, to help avoid bouncing on backlash. I tend to run my gains a bit high and I most recently switched my eq6r to 1.00x in settings and guiding.

Hope something here is of help to you.

Clear skies!
Ray

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1 month 4 weeks ago
rlancaste
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Guiding nightmare #43666
It looks like you are using be internal guider correct? Did you try the same thing using phd2 remotely from Ekos?

I am not sure I understand the PS in the original post. PHD2 can be used with Ekos remotely . I worked pretty hard about a year ago to use their api to update Ekos so that it would talk more thoroughly with PHD2 to integrate all the functions that I could into the Ekos interface so that running phd2 remotely would send all the info back and it would act mostly like you are using the internal guider. Is this what you are looking for? Because if so it already does it.

Or are you meaning that you want the internal guider to be updated to work more like phd2?

One thing that should be noted is that if you are imaging with a raspberry pi remotely over the network, the best plan is to run phd2 on the pi and to control it from Ekos on your laptop. It would not be a good plan to try to guide with the Ekos internal guider controlling a guide camera over WiFi on a pi. Phd2 running on the pi is much more responsive due to download times

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1 month 4 weeks ago
rlancaste
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Guiding nightmare #43667
It looks like you are using be internal guider correct? Did you try the same thing using phd2 remotely from Ekos?

I am not sure I understand the PS in the original post. PHD2 can be used with Ekos remotely . I worked pretty hard about a year ago to use their api to update Ekos so that it would talk more thoroughly with PHD2 to integrate all the functions that I could into the Ekos interface so that running phd2 remotely would send all the info back and it would act mostly like you are using the internal guider. Is this what you are looking for? Because if so it already does it.

Or are you meaning that you want the internal guider to be updated to work more like phd2?

One thing that should be noted is that if you are imaging with a raspberry pi remotely over the network, the best plan is to run phd2 on the pi and to control it from Ekos on your laptop. It would not be a good plan to try to guide with the Ekos internal guider controlling a guide camera over WiFi on a pi. Phd2 running on the pi is much more responsive due to download times

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1 month 4 weeks ago
Herrhausen
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Guiding nightmare #43668
I am currently guiding with today's nightly build and I do not experience any problems. I started the night with yesterday's nightly and did not experience any guiding problems with this version either.

An ASI 294 for guiding and an ASI 294Pro for imaging are being used. Nightly Ekos running on Kubuntu 19.04.

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1 month 4 weeks ago
crw4096
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Guiding nightmare #43671
Hi,

I highly recommend using PHD2 for guiding. I had problems like you are describing for at least a year, up until early July, which is when I switched to PHD2. Since then, guiding has been much much better.

PHD2 is fairly well integrated with EKOS, but it does require that you start it up separately from kstars/EKOS. This has not been a problem for me.

A very useful part of PHD2 is Guiding Assistant. I highly recommend using it for 2x or 3x your worm period before you start guiding.

Anyway, I don't mean to diss the guiding in EKOS, but it seems that implementing a guiding algorithm is a lot harder than it might seem at first. PHD2 has so much good stuff in it, plus excellent documentation. I don't know what the magic is, but I'd give PHD2 a try.

Charles

Ubuntu 18.04 and Raspbian Jessie; INDI 1.7.4
Mounts: CEM-60 chiefly; iEQ45
Cameras: Atik 383L+, QHY5-II-M
Focuser: Moonlite

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